The Donkey is not dead.
With MP2 now stalled waiting for firmware, I've turned my attention back to DonkeyProg. Interestingly, the site for this little application had over 300 hits last week - and that's not a terribly unusual number!
As far as I'm aware, DonkeyProg is the only freely available alternative to the "official" Protocol 18 - and the only freely available application software that supports devices NOT covered by said P18. Certainly there are other alternatives to MicroPro, but they don't really "add value" the way DP does (if you discount cross-platform operation that is - worthy enough, but I don't personally give a stuff about MacOSX or Linux).
So we've got something here. Sure, it's flaky. That just means that it can stand some improvement! The original DonkeyProg was written with VC6/MFC4.2 (I think... MS still haven't got VC/MFC numbers to match up!) and considering the original intention, this was absolutely the right decision. I wrote DP in a single week. I say that not to boast (I'm NOT the programmers answer to Michael Schumacher!), but to try to emphasize just what a godawful hack it actually is. I wrote it to satisfy an urgent business need for a field programmer to handle 18F2520/18F4520 devices with K149B/C hardware - something it did very well. So I released it as-is, figuring that other folks might as well get some use out of it too.
And that's how it stands, aside from some minor modifications made at the beginning - Thanks to Bruce, Pete and others for providing suggestions and even nailing down some of the problems themselves.
Now we stand at a crossroads. On the left, we have MP2/P19. On the right, we have paid-for third party solutions. Straight across, we have... DonkeyProg 2.0???
Now let's get one thing cleared up right away. I'm not a wealthy man despite my other activities and probably never will be, and obviously I'd like to make some money out of this - just a little. But... I won't ever charge for software or firmware to this particular market (after all, I'd be the one of the first to kick up a stink about that particular sharp practice), I think it's just morally wrong. I'd like a sense of what the readership think in that respect. Consider: DIY's programmers are a little behind the times, particularly when the recent programming specifications from Microchip call for very different Vpp levels between different chip families - how is a K149 to cope with that? The main question is, would there be any mileage in redesigning the programmer? How many of you would like a "production" grade programmer with variable Vdd, variable Vpp, capability for ICSP using normal Vpp or LVP and so on, for a price of around 60UKP/85EUR/100USD or possibly slightly less? Let me know please, as it CAN be done, even without resorting to Chinese manufacture. This sort of thing is my speciality.
DonkeyProg 2.0 would (will?) of course be compatible with any of my new programmers, as well as being backward compatible with DIY units. The DIY units may require an add-on module (~15UKP/20EUR/25USD) for the new firmware. I don't think firmware of the complexity of P19 is going to fit a 16F628A, or even a 648A. My add on board will most likely use an 18F2520.
EDIT: Sorry about the rather tatty ending: My excuse is that I was in considerable pain from a back condition - high powered painkillers have their own peculiar effects! A day in bed has worked wonders...
Whatever happens, I will see MP2 through. At the moment DP2.0 is just an idea that I'm kicking about as a possible way of improving things. DP will remain free of charge, again I'm just testing the waters to see if there is a market for an improved programmer unit which might make the development worth my while.


6 Comments:
Hi Stuart,
for the short term, a bare bones V2.0 DonkeyProg would certainly be a great help. Do you know if the "new" K185 that DIY is talking about addresses these Vpp issues? I'd certainly have no problem saving 75,- € for a new programmer, if it held up to the promises that DIY more or less made: continuing software updates. That's about the cost of 10-12 PIC chips. If some of the ideas that Bob was talking about - like an adapter for flatpacks/PLF - were integrated, that would certainly be a good buy. I tend to spend quite a bit more for MC9S12 Motorola stuff, so the PIC price catagory is OK. And when the PIC24 series hits the streets I'd certainly like to be able to program those. So, keep the idea going. I think there's a market (in fact, just look at how desperate the DIY users were/are, to get something usable. There must be quite a few users there!). Of course, it's sad to see that the OpenSource idea didn't work out, but let's face it: I wouldn't be willing to put in that much work for free either.
Hi Stu.
Just to add a new direction before DP2 (DonkeyProg2), how about a DP1.1 that supports the Kit128 (182) first. Even if it is still a hack, I am sure a lot of people, me included, will really appreciate a working 18Fxx20/21 solution in the short term for our existing programmers.
Thanks...
Hi Stuart,
just heard in the news that NHS is asking the British to have more sex to improve their health. Hope your back trouble is just a coincidence and that you're still at work on MP2/DonkeyProg. As to the 18F4680: I have programmed it with DonkeyProg using a Kit150 since DonkeyProg "hit the Market". It works fine.
Unfortunately my back condition is chronic: it's been going on for over 6 years now and was operated on 5 years ago. It's back to physiotherapy next week, and the cycle begins again...
However, I'm still functional in the brain department so development IS continuing. The reference to updating DP just means adding the missing devices to the dropdown list really, and maybe replacing the scraggy list control data viewer with the editable grid control from MP2. If I do that, then I might as well replace the hex file handler with MP2's one as well which would allow files to be saved. DP would then be almost at the functionality level of MicroPro.
We'll see. There are a lot of folks using DonkeyProg now, and MP2 is still pre-beta. Maybe I should do things the other way round - i.e. graft the DP firmware to MP2 as-is... Thoughts?
very difficult to judge from over here, but I suspect that there are a lot of Kit149/150 users who just want to be able to burn some chips. That and the slow progress in Arizona would speak for the revamping of the MP2 firmware and using the application as is. Might be an interesting option: use the revamped MP2 firmware with P019 for free or shell out a few bucks and get an improved software which will continue to be updated and has extra features as well. Then the masses would be calmed and you'd only have to work on a product for which your efforts are being paid. Looking at the "stuff", often unfriendly, coming in on DIY's webpage, I certainly wouldn't want to be responsible for anything that's not being paid for. In the end, a commercial effort that has some support by one person or company is going to be better than waiting for DIY to get something going.
Hmmm. I don't know what the politics of the situation are over in AZ, all I know is that the upgrade process is way,way over time and probably way,way over budget too. All I know is that we've got a fairly solid hardware product which is hamstrung by a lack of up to date software.
I might change direction a bit here - Improving DP looks like the way forward for now, but the commercial aspects are still not clear to me yet. After all, my intention is that there should always be a fully functional, unrestricted version available free of charge to users.
There are also some other issues to sort out, primarily K128/182 support and the mechanism for adding new devices to the software - I think a simplified CHIPINFO-like file might be the best way for this.
Best thing to do at the moment, I think, is to start developing a new DonkeyProg with VC6. It's going to take too long to get to grips with C# 2005 - it's radically different to the 2003 version I originally learned with, so that's something for the medium-term future. Getting a solid and up to date platform in place is more important than new technology.
Regarding support issues: From this end it's quite simple, I'll help whenever I can but if anybody tries to give me grief or gets nasty with me then I'll just ignore and block them. End of story.
At the end of the day, I'll just write the app first and worry about the rest later...
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